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	<title>Comments on: The Days Of The Player Being The Clever Bit Are Long Gone</title>
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	<link>http://www.dailydooh.com/archives/51780</link>
	<description>Digital Out of Home - Insight, Knowledge and Opinion</description>
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		<title>By: Adrian J Cotterill, Editor-in-Chief</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydooh.com/archives/51780/comment-page-1#comment-144076</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian J Cotterill, Editor-in-Chief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 17:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydooh.com/?p=51780#comment-144076</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks DoohGuy.  As I said we reached out to Xibo  when researching the possibilities of Open Source.  The Xibo guys straight out of university and with their day jobs were pretty hard to track down and converse with and they seemed to have little familiarity with the digital signage or DOOH industry.  Xibo looks like and feels like a university project./ Ayuda on the other hand have spent over USD 1M on developing their player which they are donating to the industry. Once up on LaunchPad it is in the steering group&#039;s hands NOT Ayuda&#039;s]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks DoohGuy.  As I said we reached out to Xibo  when researching the possibilities of Open Source.  The Xibo guys straight out of university and with their day jobs were pretty hard to track down and converse with and they seemed to have little familiarity with the digital signage or DOOH industry.  Xibo looks like and feels like a university project./ Ayuda on the other hand have spent over USD 1M on developing their player which they are donating to the industry. Once up on LaunchPad it is in the steering group&#8217;s hands NOT Ayuda&#8217;s</p>
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		<title>By: DoohGuy</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydooh.com/archives/51780/comment-page-1#comment-144075</link>
		<dc:creator>DoohGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 17:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydooh.com/?p=51780#comment-144075</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&gt; There is no community behind Xibo nor any impetus or innovation.

Please Adrian, as a respected member of this community, I expected more from you than this FUD.  So hopefully you won&#039;t censor this comment as I feel the need to publically debunk your claims.

1- Xibo devs have day jobs.  Great.  So do the Ayuda Devs. 

2- Trying to &quot;call&quot; an open-source developer is ridiculous.  Join their mailing list to contact them.

3- No community?  Please.  Let&#039;s compare for a second:

OpenSplash.net : Nothing but a Wordpress placeholder page and blog posts.

Xibo: Documentation: http://wiki.xibo.org.uk/wiki/Manual:TOC
Active support forums: https://answers.launchpad.net/xibo
5 developers: https://launchpad.net/~xibo-developers
Commercial support and hosting: http://directory.xibo.org.uk/

4- Not interested in talking to you?  Are you surprised?  They don&#039;t want their project hijacked into being a marketing tool for Ayuda.

5- Their player is even coded in C#, Ayuda&#039;s favorite development language.  They should have been able to contribute useful code.

6- Comes with the CMS - Opensplash does not.

Therefore, I am literally at a loss to explain why the world really needed yet another open-source digital signage solution, especially one that doesn&#039;t even work on its own and has been consistently late on the release date.

Where is the release Adrian?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; There is no community behind Xibo nor any impetus or innovation.</p>
<p>Please Adrian, as a respected member of this community, I expected more from you than this FUD.  So hopefully you won&#8217;t censor this comment as I feel the need to publically debunk your claims.</p>
<p>1- Xibo devs have day jobs.  Great.  So do the Ayuda Devs. </p>
<p>2- Trying to &#8220;call&#8221; an open-source developer is ridiculous.  Join their mailing list to contact them.</p>
<p>3- No community?  Please.  Let&#8217;s compare for a second:</p>
<p>OpenSplash.net : Nothing but a WordPress placeholder page and blog posts.</p>
<p>Xibo: Documentation: <a href="http://wiki.xibo.org.uk/wiki/Manual:TOC" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.xibo.org.uk/wiki/Manual:TOC</a><br />
Active support forums: <a href="https://answers.launchpad.net/xibo" rel="nofollow">https://answers.launchpad.net/xibo</a><br />
5 developers: <a href="https://launchpad.net/~xibo-developers" rel="nofollow">https://launchpad.net/~xibo-developers</a><br />
Commercial support and hosting: <a href="http://directory.xibo.org.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://directory.xibo.org.uk/</a></p>
<p>4- Not interested in talking to you?  Are you surprised?  They don&#8217;t want their project hijacked into being a marketing tool for Ayuda.</p>
<p>5- Their player is even coded in C#, Ayuda&#8217;s favorite development language.  They should have been able to contribute useful code.</p>
<p>6- Comes with the CMS &#8211; Opensplash does not.</p>
<p>Therefore, I am literally at a loss to explain why the world really needed yet another open-source digital signage solution, especially one that doesn&#8217;t even work on its own and has been consistently late on the release date.</p>
<p>Where is the release Adrian?</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian J Cotterill, Editor-in-Chief</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydooh.com/archives/51780/comment-page-1#comment-143851</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian J Cotterill, Editor-in-Chief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 14:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydooh.com/?p=51780#comment-143851</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[WIth regard Xibo. We reached out to them when we first started looking at what open source platform to adopt and help drive. The two guys behind it have day jobs, couldn&#039;t take calls during normal work hours and frankly didn&#039;t seem interested in talking to us.  There is no community behind Xibo nor any impetus or innovation. Shame]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WIth regard Xibo. We reached out to them when we first started looking at what open source platform to adopt and help drive. The two guys behind it have day jobs, couldn&#8217;t take calls during normal work hours and frankly didn&#8217;t seem interested in talking to us.  There is no community behind Xibo nor any impetus or innovation. Shame</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan Crotaz</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydooh.com/archives/51780/comment-page-1#comment-142514</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Crotaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 18:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydooh.com/?p=51780#comment-142514</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t believe there is a CPU scalability problem in the data centre.  There would be if a CMS was a CPU intensive process, but it&#039;s not.  The O2 network in the UK is approaching 3000 screens - it&#039;s run from a single server (with backups).

The usual scalability issue is the network pipe at the CMS.  The easiest way to sort this out is to host your CMS server on the same network as the clients.  If the clients are outside the LAN, then host the server in an internet connected data centre.  For example, in the UK Claranet provide ADSL and hosted servers where the server is on the same gigabit network as the ADSL endpoints, so can send to many of them simultaneously.

The one innovation of the past few years that has massively improved scalability is player-side metadata and time based filtering of simple playlists (i.e. some content in each playlist is only valid for play at certain times, rather than the old way of an entire playlist being valid at certain times).  This is a feature of almost all players available today as far as I am aware.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t believe there is a CPU scalability problem in the data centre.  There would be if a CMS was a CPU intensive process, but it&#8217;s not.  The O2 network in the UK is approaching 3000 screens &#8211; it&#8217;s run from a single server (with backups).</p>
<p>The usual scalability issue is the network pipe at the CMS.  The easiest way to sort this out is to host your CMS server on the same network as the clients.  If the clients are outside the LAN, then host the server in an internet connected data centre.  For example, in the UK Claranet provide ADSL and hosted servers where the server is on the same gigabit network as the ADSL endpoints, so can send to many of them simultaneously.</p>
<p>The one innovation of the past few years that has massively improved scalability is player-side metadata and time based filtering of simple playlists (i.e. some content in each playlist is only valid for play at certain times, rather than the old way of an entire playlist being valid at certain times).  This is a feature of almost all players available today as far as I am aware.</p>
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		<title>By: DoohGuy</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydooh.com/archives/51780/comment-page-1#comment-142504</link>
		<dc:creator>DoohGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydooh.com/?p=51780#comment-142504</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great discussion, but I don&#039;t entirely agree.  Dumb players + smart servers = scalability problem in the datacenter.  Smart players and dumb servers scale much better.  When a network grows in size, spare CPU cycles also grow.  Why not use them as a distributed computing grid instead of centralizing everything in the datacenter?

Good luck with OpenSplash though, I agree that it might help clear out the low end of the market.  However, you guys do know that this is nothing new right?  An open source alternative has existed for years and this one actually *includes* the CMS.

http://xibo.org.uk/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion, but I don&#8217;t entirely agree.  Dumb players + smart servers = scalability problem in the datacenter.  Smart players and dumb servers scale much better.  When a network grows in size, spare CPU cycles also grow.  Why not use them as a distributed computing grid instead of centralizing everything in the datacenter?</p>
<p>Good luck with OpenSplash though, I agree that it might help clear out the low end of the market.  However, you guys do know that this is nothing new right?  An open source alternative has existed for years and this one actually *includes* the CMS.</p>
<p><a href="http://xibo.org.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://xibo.org.uk/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Gavin</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydooh.com/archives/51780/comment-page-1#comment-142500</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Gavin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydooh.com/?p=51780#comment-142500</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that for most uses the player should simply be a utility. We&#039;ve always held the view that in MOST cases the player should be as &quot;dumb&quot; as possible with all of the intelligence worked out at the server end. The player gets its instructions from the server.  Certainly the player needs to be able to follow through with complext commands from the server - so it shouldn&#039;t be without some features, but what I think the responses from Bryan and Jason point out is that we&#039;ll be better off with a separation between the software and the player.

We have customers who had installed large networks with proprietary player hardware that only works with the packaged software. Their too far in to change now, but their software/hardware combo has not innovated and do not have the basic features most have now.  This is an example where a company trying to offer both the best hardware and software can&#039;t do both amazingly well.  

Great CMS software companies should be able to build on the efforts of Brightsign, Spinetix and IAdea - as a few already have.  Standards are needed and we&#039;ve been pushing for Media RSS as a standard since day 1 in our company and worked with Signagelive to successfully implement a standard whereas our syndicated content can plug-n-play with any Signagelive player - wether that is a PC or IAdea SMIL based player.

I&#039;ll be interested in seeing how OpenSplash plays out - but I&#039;m all for the notion of creating some standards for players as the end-points as it will benefit those implementing signage.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that for most uses the player should simply be a utility. We&#8217;ve always held the view that in MOST cases the player should be as &#8220;dumb&#8221; as possible with all of the intelligence worked out at the server end. The player gets its instructions from the server.  Certainly the player needs to be able to follow through with complext commands from the server &#8211; so it shouldn&#8217;t be without some features, but what I think the responses from Bryan and Jason point out is that we&#8217;ll be better off with a separation between the software and the player.</p>
<p>We have customers who had installed large networks with proprietary player hardware that only works with the packaged software. Their too far in to change now, but their software/hardware combo has not innovated and do not have the basic features most have now.  This is an example where a company trying to offer both the best hardware and software can&#8217;t do both amazingly well.  </p>
<p>Great CMS software companies should be able to build on the efforts of Brightsign, Spinetix and IAdea &#8211; as a few already have.  Standards are needed and we&#8217;ve been pushing for Media RSS as a standard since day 1 in our company and worked with Signagelive to successfully implement a standard whereas our syndicated content can plug-n-play with any Signagelive player &#8211; wether that is a PC or IAdea SMIL based player.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be interested in seeing how OpenSplash plays out &#8211; but I&#8217;m all for the notion of creating some standards for players as the end-points as it will benefit those implementing signage.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydooh.com/archives/51780/comment-page-1#comment-142489</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 12:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydooh.com/?p=51780#comment-142489</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PS - I do not say that Scala, Inspired, OneLan, CoolSign are high end players because they sell lots of licenses or have big marketing departments.  These are the players that do more than play loops of content with scheduling - they have scripting, real time control, video wall capabilities etc that make them suitable for more complex technical requirements.  

Note that the need for these features is actually quite rare.  The vast majority of rollouts need complex scheduling control capability at the CMS and quite simple playout capability at the player.  By simple I mean simple playlists or metadata and time filtering rules attached to content, be that video or Flash.  Almost all players on the market can do this.  Huge lists of supported video codecs are much less important now that transcoding at the CMS is trivial and quick (e.g. Badaboomit).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS &#8211; I do not say that Scala, Inspired, OneLan, CoolSign are high end players because they sell lots of licenses or have big marketing departments.  These are the players that do more than play loops of content with scheduling &#8211; they have scripting, real time control, video wall capabilities etc that make them suitable for more complex technical requirements.  </p>
<p>Note that the need for these features is actually quite rare.  The vast majority of rollouts need complex scheduling control capability at the CMS and quite simple playout capability at the player.  By simple I mean simple playlists or metadata and time filtering rules attached to content, be that video or Flash.  Almost all players on the market can do this.  Huge lists of supported video codecs are much less important now that transcoding at the CMS is trivial and quick (e.g. Badaboomit).</p>
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		<title>By: Hardnut</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydooh.com/archives/51780/comment-page-1#comment-142460</link>
		<dc:creator>Hardnut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 08:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydooh.com/?p=51780#comment-142460</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I need to digest your latest piece Bryan, it will take time but I shall respond. As for the loch ness monster silhouette  in your captcha box, you were warned before about the effects of magic mushrooms............ Back to work now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I need to digest your latest piece Bryan, it will take time but I shall respond. As for the loch ness monster silhouette  in your captcha box, you were warned before about the effects of magic mushrooms&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; Back to work now.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan Crotaz</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydooh.com/archives/51780/comment-page-1#comment-142408</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Crotaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydooh.com/?p=51780#comment-142408</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree, Jason.  The days of the player being the clever bit are long gone, and I speak as someone who developed a player for 10+ years.  The CMS is where it&#039;s at, and OpenSplash is a tool to be used by a CMS provider, not something they should be worried about.  I&#039;ve been watching raspberry pi for a while now and it&#039;s looking very impressive as a signage platform.  The demo of it running Quake bodes well for h/w accelerated Flash playback.

Hardnut - Magic Net may not figure in your recommendation list, and it wouldn&#039;t in mine either - but remember that 99.9% of potential customers for signage have never done this before - they have no idea beyond the marketing puff why one product is better or worse than another.  I am constantly surprised at how many Magic Net installations I see in the real world.  And at how many virus checker popups, blue screens, etc.

Much as we would like it to be another way, the real volume in the signage industry doesn&#039;t come through those of us who know what we are doing and have been doing it for years - it comes from IT departments, marketing departments, small creative agencies (who are still deploying DVD players) and other people who don&#039;t know what we know.  To them cost is everything - they don&#039;t see the problems with their decisions until much further down the line when the cost of all the truck rolls involved in swapping out the technology is too great to consider it.  So a free player that runs on cheap hardware, which can be driven by any CMS on the market, is a very useful thing.  If they put the wrong (cheap) CMS in on day 1, and they then find its limitations, they can afford to replace it.  They can&#039;t necessarily do that with their players.

The CMS of the future should (in my opinion):
- support a mixed estate of multiple playout devices
- fit a vertical market really neatly (using their terminology for example)
- have the required scheduling complexity *for that vertical market*
- have the required playout reporting *for that vertical market*
- er...
- that&#039;s it...

{Maintenance reporting and playout measurement reporting (e.g. EPOS, Quividi et al) should be separate tools to my mind.  Reports should be available in XML so that turnkey systems can be built from multiple systems from different manufacturers.}

Targetting your next CMS at a vertical enables you to compete much more effectively in that market against generic products.  Having a tool such as OpenSplash/IAdea etc means you don&#039;t have to develop a player - that&#039;s a solved problem - get on and build the clever bit - the user interface.

Finally - Adrian, why do I have a loch ness monster silhouette in my captcha box?  Never seen that before!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, Jason.  The days of the player being the clever bit are long gone, and I speak as someone who developed a player for 10+ years.  The CMS is where it&#8217;s at, and OpenSplash is a tool to be used by a CMS provider, not something they should be worried about.  I&#8217;ve been watching raspberry pi for a while now and it&#8217;s looking very impressive as a signage platform.  The demo of it running Quake bodes well for h/w accelerated Flash playback.</p>
<p>Hardnut &#8211; Magic Net may not figure in your recommendation list, and it wouldn&#8217;t in mine either &#8211; but remember that 99.9% of potential customers for signage have never done this before &#8211; they have no idea beyond the marketing puff why one product is better or worse than another.  I am constantly surprised at how many Magic Net installations I see in the real world.  And at how many virus checker popups, blue screens, etc.</p>
<p>Much as we would like it to be another way, the real volume in the signage industry doesn&#8217;t come through those of us who know what we are doing and have been doing it for years &#8211; it comes from IT departments, marketing departments, small creative agencies (who are still deploying DVD players) and other people who don&#8217;t know what we know.  To them cost is everything &#8211; they don&#8217;t see the problems with their decisions until much further down the line when the cost of all the truck rolls involved in swapping out the technology is too great to consider it.  So a free player that runs on cheap hardware, which can be driven by any CMS on the market, is a very useful thing.  If they put the wrong (cheap) CMS in on day 1, and they then find its limitations, they can afford to replace it.  They can&#8217;t necessarily do that with their players.</p>
<p>The CMS of the future should (in my opinion):<br />
- support a mixed estate of multiple playout devices<br />
- fit a vertical market really neatly (using their terminology for example)<br />
- have the required scheduling complexity *for that vertical market*<br />
- have the required playout reporting *for that vertical market*<br />
- er&#8230;<br />
- that&#8217;s it&#8230;</p>
<p>{Maintenance reporting and playout measurement reporting (e.g. EPOS, Quividi et al) should be separate tools to my mind.  Reports should be available in XML so that turnkey systems can be built from multiple systems from different manufacturers.}</p>
<p>Targetting your next CMS at a vertical enables you to compete much more effectively in that market against generic products.  Having a tool such as OpenSplash/IAdea etc means you don&#8217;t have to develop a player &#8211; that&#8217;s a solved problem &#8211; get on and build the clever bit &#8211; the user interface.</p>
<p>Finally &#8211; Adrian, why do I have a loch ness monster silhouette in my captcha box?  Never seen that before!</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Cremins</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydooh.com/archives/51780/comment-page-1#comment-142375</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Cremins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 20:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydooh.com/?p=51780#comment-142375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is interesting reading through the above thread and in parallel reading the article by Dave Haynes over on sixteen-nine regarding the Raspberry PI http://www.sixteen-nine.net/?p=7414. The link between both OpenSplash and devices such as the $25 Raspberry PI is that both are leading the industry towards a point in time when there will be minimal value in the end-point playing media.

The true commercial value will be in providing the software, content and services required to install and manage networks of Open Standard devices, regardless of their origin.

IAdea with their SMIL initiative have led the way and provided the impetus for digital signage software vendors to embrace playback technology that are non-proprietary. OpenSplash should not be feared, it should be embraced along with any other hardware or software that drives our industry towards mass adoption.

If digital signage software companies take the approach of ‘It is plays back media, let’s support it’, then customers will have true choice and flexibility, where playback technology is interchangeable with any digital signage CMS platform.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting reading through the above thread and in parallel reading the article by Dave Haynes over on sixteen-nine regarding the Raspberry PI <a href="http://www.sixteen-nine.net/?p=7414" rel="nofollow">http://www.sixteen-nine.net/?p=7414</a>. The link between both OpenSplash and devices such as the $25 Raspberry PI is that both are leading the industry towards a point in time when there will be minimal value in the end-point playing media.</p>
<p>The true commercial value will be in providing the software, content and services required to install and manage networks of Open Standard devices, regardless of their origin.</p>
<p>IAdea with their SMIL initiative have led the way and provided the impetus for digital signage software vendors to embrace playback technology that are non-proprietary. OpenSplash should not be feared, it should be embraced along with any other hardware or software that drives our industry towards mass adoption.</p>
<p>If digital signage software companies take the approach of ‘It is plays back media, let’s support it’, then customers will have true choice and flexibility, where playback technology is interchangeable with any digital signage CMS platform.</p>
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